[BIBLE!!] Toutes les séries PAiSTe pour les nuls!

[So What ?]

Nom de Zeux...
tout ce que vous avez voulu savoir sur les Paiste sans jamais oser le demander... Et bien c'est là ou à peu près. Seul défaut : c'est en anglais, mais lisible.

Enjoy!

http://home.mnet-online.de/cymbalism/cy ... e.html#top

[RSD]

Merci pour le lien !
Ma Formula 602 dois pas être toute jeune du coup, puisque les Flat Ride sont nées en 1967 si j'ai bien compris (du moins pour cette série après je sais pas) et qu'elle a des reste du logo noir et que le logo bleu a été adopté dans les 70's...
En tout cas sa l'empeche pas de sonner

[soft]

puisqu'on y est :

un autre texte en Anglais pompé sur un site Russe, retraçant la grande Saga de la Tôle à tarte en bronze au pays des vaches Milka:

le lien en avait été donné sur Lugdupouette; j'en avais fait une traduction pour Khrees mais, Las! je ne la retrouve plus! encore un coup de l'évaporation numérique;

This is a timeline of Paiste cymbals 1932-2004 which also covers the basics of cymbal manufacturing and playing. I thank the cymbalholics for their input.


Quoted from Paiste.com:

Russia (1901-1916): Michail Toomas Paiste, a composer and musician, whose father had come from Estonia to serve in the Tsarist Guard, founds a publishing business and music store in St. Petersburg. The operation, which also includes modest instrument manufacturing and repair facilities, flourishes for many years until the upheavals of the Russian Revolution force its closing.

Estonia (1917-1939): Michail Toomas returns to his native country, and re-opens his business in the city of Tallinn. It is here that he begins to design and manufacture cymbals for concert and marching bands together with his son, Michail M. Paiste, who quickly becomes the driving force and eventually takes over the business. Seeking to meet the rapidly evolving demands of "modern music" and the emerging drum set, the son begins to develop his own special concept for Turkish style cymbals, which he prefers over the Chinese style as a starting point. It is during this time that he also develops the first gongs. The resulting instruments receive awards and international recognition as they begin to be exported to Europe, the USA and overseas.


1932: Stambul line released. These cymbals are made of CuNi12 (88% copper and 12% nickel) nickel bronze which is less rigid (rigidity or stiffness is the opposite of compliance, while elasticity means the amount of force applied after which the material breaks) than CuSn20 (80% copper and 20% tin) bell bronze but much tougher, that means that it rather bends than cracks. Nickelrich alloys are widely used in Russia and Asia, therefore it is only natural that Paiste prefer nickelbronze over tinbronze. Another reason is that sheets of CuNi12 are industrially produced in perfect quality. Nickelbronze does not have the flawed microstructure of bell bronze, thus the cymbals do not wear out. The feeling differs from turkish cymbals also due to the evener, machine-supported hammering: A man holds a sheet and slowly turns it under a hydraulic hammer that he controls with pedals. Nickelbronze is that tough that Paiste do not lathe much, therefore the cymbals are uniformly thick throughout the bow, not much tapered.

Solid metals and metal alloys consist of corns of crystals. Bronze is any alloy which contains more than 50% copper. Bronze is harder than pure copper. Copper ore is found on many locations, but many times it does not contain enough hardeners. Besides hardness there are values like forgeability, rigidity, elasticity, resistance against corrosion, friction and abrasion, thermal and electrical conductivity. Nickel-zinc-bronze was the preferred alloy for parts which stand in the rain while tin-bronze could show its hardness, elasticity and low abrasion when used for machines. Around 1000 a.D. Phoenician dealers, mixing copper from Cyprus with tin from Cornwall, ruled the Old World. Most ores are a mix of several metal oxides and other minerals, yet Cypriots and Britains could cook it in such a manner that they extracted a range of pure metals. Caesar conquered Spain, France and Britain also for the tin, antimon and wismut which was digged in England. Alloys of antimon or wismut with tin or plumb are also popular. Bell bronze is as hard as mediocre steel but not as tough and hardly forgeable. Copper melts at 1100°K, iron at 1700°K. Radiation raises with the fourth power of temperature. Reduction of iron ore is not possible without lots of coal. Indo-Germans controlled huge woods in the Eurasian core. The tribes which became later known as Romans, Greek, Germans and Persians (Vater, father, baba, pater, patros, ...) conquered Europe and the Near East around 800 a.A. with iron swords. Nickel is used for alloys of copper as well as of iron. A copper-nickel-zinc alloy was known as Packfong in China. Shortly before the industrial revolution, most ressources of rich nickel ore were exhausted, hence methods to extract the metal from cheaper ores were sought. Around the year 1850, chemical separation procedures (with sulphuric acid) were invented.

In the beginning of the last century, dance bands appeared everywhere. For the sake of flexibility they did not want to use one musician each for snare and bass drum and cymbals but one man for all. Before that time, cymbals were not hit with sticks but pairwise. Stick-hit metals of the nineteenth century were bells, gongs and xylophones. Charleston cymbals also called Hi-Hats were the natural development. Symphonic and marching band cymbals are not suited for being hit on the edge by a stick. Small cymbals work better, are cheaper, take up less space and are called splash cymbals. Paiste adressed the durability problem by using a tougher alloy and invented the crashride by chance. Zildjian tweaked shapes and lathing and managed to supply the Jazz, Bebop, Big Band and Big Beat aera with cymbals.

I have never seen a nickelbronze Stambul with the emboss "Made in Estonia", "Paiste, Estland" or such. If anyone has a pre-war Stambul or Paiste gong, please tell me about it! I think that early Stambuls do not bear the Paiste name at all.

Quoted from Paiste.com:

Poland (1940-1944): The events of World War II force Michail M. to leave Estonia for Poland, where he re-establishes the family business. The company struggles with a wartime shortage of raw materials and difficulty in maintaining international relations, but manages to survive.

Germany (1945-): Towards the end of the war, Michail M. and his family escaped Poland as refugees, bringing him to Northern Germany where, for the third time, he begins to produce cymbals and gongs. The instruments' superior reputation help revive business relationships and ensure development of a robust export business throughout the Fifties.


The English drum company Premier manufactured cymbals in a way similar to Paiste and sold them as Super Zyn (bell bronze), Zyn, Krut and Beverly (mostly nickelsilver). Then there was Italian Zanki (or "Zanchi"), an early adopter of rotocasting. UFIP shaped cymbals with hydraulic hammers before they adopted rotocasting. The Japanese appeared. I have a nice splash cymbal without any markings.

1957: Paiste open a new factory and bureaus in Switzerland, intending to get a share of the American music buisness. Ludwig Drums, Chicago, is the distributor for Paiste in America, so the Ludwig Paiste cymbals, technically the same as or similar to Stambuls, are added to the Ludwig Catalog. In 1957 Paiste also release the 602 Formula series. These are bell bronze cymbals and nearly twice as expensive as Stambuls. Paiste use differently thick sheets, hammer different profiles and vary cup shapes, so every drummer can have his own cymbal.


Paiste deliver cymbals to Dixon, England, and Trixon, Germany.

Sixties: Paiste produce cheaper cymbals, those are the Super series for the European market and the Stanople series for the US market. They are made of thinner sheets in order to reduce hammering effort and have just slight surface scratching. "Paiste" is not embossed since people did not knew Paiste anyway.

18 inch SUPER

In 1963 Paiste begin to use CuSn8 (92% copper and 8% tin, today Paiste calls it "the 2002 bronze"), a reddish alloy.

In 1965 the Stambul 65 series made of CuSn8 is released. CuSn8 is a bit softer than CuNi12, therefore sheets become thicker.

In 1966 the Stambul 66 series is available.

Paiste understand that CuSn8 has a higher elasticity than CuNi12, therefore sheets can become thinner: The Giant Beat series is released in 1967. Paiste continue Stambul until 1975. In 1967 Paiste release the 602 Sound Edge hihat. I think the Flat Ride also is a Paiste invention.

Stanople and Ludwig Standard cymbals also use the new alloy. The 1971 Ludwig catalog lists a 20 inch cymbal for:
* Formula 602 79.00 US-$
* Ludwig Standard 45.00 US-$
* Ludwig Stanople 35.75 US-$

In 1971 Paiste end Giant Beat and release the 2002 line. 2002 cymbals should be carefully lathed, but demand is so great that Paiste start to sell B quality.

The Seven Sound Set and then the Sound Creation line are derived from the 602 line and feature unusal sizes, shapes and hammerings. In the fifties Zildjian released lots of exotica, now it is Paiste?s turn.
Paiste is proud.

Super retreats and Dixie comes up. 11-inch hi-hats are hammered from paperthin CuNi12. Both cymbals weight the same but one is lower in pitch due to a flatter profile. My 18-inch Dixie is made of CuSn8. Some Dixies are made of brass (zincbronze, mostly CuZn38).

In the early seventies serial numbers are introduced. DontWasteMyTime ("wcannistra" at the e-mail server "cs.com") is collecting them for dechiffration.

In 1975 Ludwig retreats, and the new american distributor for Paiste is Rogers Drums, owned by CBS who also buy Rhodes. Stocked Stambuls which have been already embossed with "Stambul" are stamped 505. 505 will last for eleven years. Dixie becomes 404. Rogers list the 2002 and 404 lines. Later on 602 and SC are also available in Burgerland and sold in great amounts there.

The 101 series is made of brass. A heavy one-step press shapes bow and grooves, and hammering is applied afterwards; this seems to be the way that most 101s are made.







In case you have a CuNi12, CuSn8 ot CuZn38 cymbal with too many rivet holes or a small crack, you can solder or weld. It is a better solution than drilling the end of cracks or than cutting parts off the plate. Ar50Cu30Zn20 melts at 600°C, but a small propan gas flame is too weak. Tin has the disadvantage that it transforms into dust with time, "tin pest", but it is a very important metal for its low melting point and its low toxicness.

CuSn20 cymbals are harder to repair.

Zildjian mostly live from replacement sales. Nickelbronze cymbals stamped "Meinl", "Mark Romen xy" (xy being the year of production, I know of 70, 71, 73 and 74) and various other names appear around 1970. Meinl cymbals are manufactured in several ways, mostly pressed into shape, sometimes not hammered but often lathed. Roland Meinl, German, cooperates with Tama, Japanese. By introducing hammer roboters he manages to make the hihats and rides of the Meteor brass series sound very good. Some 302s and weak-name cymbals sound good, too. Italian Tosco appears.

Paiste founds an US-American subdivision in 1980/81. Today they have sales bureaus in Spain and Estland, too.

In 1981 Sabian is founded by a member of the americanized Zildjian family, taking over a Zildjian cymbal plant in Canada. Sabian combine the traditional approach with effectiveness and consistency, at least they say so. In a few years Sabian become a major player, forming the cartel of the "big three" with Zildjian and Paiste. Sabian buys and erases Tosco.

Paiste release the unlathed Rude cymbals for heavy players. They enter the Pop train, the industry-compatible dream of a better world, with Colorsound which are fully inked cymbals.

The 1000, 2000 and 3000 are released in 1986. The 3000 are improved 2002, 2000 are improved 505. We see the brassy 100 and 200 and the CuSn8ty 400. 1000s to 3000s are also available in Colorsound finish and in Rude style, some 400s wear a colored lacqer, too. Blacked 3000s are sold as Visions especially to Terry Bozzio. There is the 500 and 900 series of band/marching cymbals. Paiste also deliver cymbals in Reflector finish, that means without lathing grooves.


Rude 1000 20-inch Crash-Ride

Paiste has six series, more than ever before - although not as many as today. I saw a 20 - 18 - 16 - 14HH set of red Colorsound 2000s, a wet dream! A friend of mine wants to sell them for 550 Euro, contact me in case you are interested!

At the end of the eighties Paiste make tabula rasa and bring back the 2002s. Paiste introduce a new alloy, that is CuSn15, the Sound Formula. The Signature line also called "Paiste line" or simply "line" also uses this alloy. Paiste is granted a patent, let me quote it:
An alloy containing, for example, 14.7 percent by weight tin, 0.08 percent by weight phosphorus and 85.22 percent by weight copper is initially melted in an induction melting furnace.

The melt is delivered at a temperature of 1000.degree. C. to 1200.degree. C. into a heat retention or holding furnace of a strip or band casting installation. A strip or band is cast.

The cast strip or band has, for example, a width of 670 mm and a thickness of 18 mm. This strip or band cannot be coiled and is therefore cut into plates of approximately 3 to 4 meters length.

Such plates are now homogenized at 600.degree. C. to 700.degree. C. during about 10 to 25 hours.

Then the casting and oxidation skin is removed by means of a milling tool or cutter or equivalent structure.

Thereafter the plates are initially only slightly cold rolled, i.e. by about 20 percent and then recrystallized at temperatures between 500.degree. C. and 700.degree. C. This process cycle of cold rolling and recrystallization takes place until a final sheet or plate thickness of 1 to 2 mm is obtained.

Then a final annealing is carried out at temperatures between 400.degree. C. and 500.degree. C.

The obtained grain size then should be between 0.003 and 0.015 mm.

The hardness should lie between 150 250 kiloponds per square millimeter, depending on the strived for sound or tone character.

Now circular blanks or discs of, for example, 200 to 610 mm in diameter are cut out of this sheet or plate from which there is formed the aforedescribed cymbal 1.

Alpha is "Released in 1991, improvements to sound, function, optics and range in 1994 and 1997". Brass Tones appears. The original Sound Formula used a logo swiped from the Sound Creation. In 1996 Paiste move the production of Sound Formula cymbals to Switzerland, give them a Frankensteinian logo, Signature-y lathing and laquer.

Around 1998 the Sound Formula line is ended. Traditionals is made of the same alloy. Paiste focus on cheaper manufacturing and the make up: Lathing patterns, controlled surface oxidation, hammering bells and already lathed cymbals, different hammer tips, voil? Dimensions! 502 is tin bronze, 402 is a nickel bronze revival, 302 is zinc bronze. Istanbul cymbals are popular. In the USA the company Saluda is founded.


Early 502s

When they do not sound like soap, 802 and Alpha are cymbals with Stambul value. Imports from China, especially Wuhan cymbals, raise. Rotocasting as used by UFIP has great advantages for bells, rides and hihats - cheaper manufacturing and better sound. Possibly, the people at UFIP rather care for durable crash cymbals than for cheap manufacturing, but possibly they do not even know. Paiste release yet another CuSn8 line, the Innovations.

Nowadays most cymbals of most manufacturers -but not UFIPs and some Chinese products- are laquered for protection against oxidation: Unaware customers, tropic climates, humid cellars. But when the cymbal gets scratched, humidity sneaks in and causes stains, and the stain cannot become removed until the laquer is also completely removed using toxic chemicals.

Since the year 2002, the series 302, 402 and 502 wear a plus. In 2003 402 is decontinued.

In 2004, Paiste introduce the once again "best cymbals ever", the Dark Energies made of the Signature alloy.